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| Show me your wedges please! http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=7038 |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:09 pm ] |
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Hi Folks, after my latest developments were made, someone was kind enough to let me know that i had forgotten to install a wedge on my guitar and now, the binding and purfs are on so i'm kind of in a delicate situation here. Could you show me some of your wedges so i can get ideas on how to go about makin' mine, i want to know what would be the best route to go with what i've done so far! Here's a pic showing my situation Serge 
TIA Serge |
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| Author: | old man [ Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:43 pm ] |
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Serge, I'd go simple. Use a leftover piece of your binding, rout very carefully and glue it in. You might be able to fill any mismatch with PH sawdust. If I were routing it, I'd place a stop block on either end of the channel so the bit couldn't get into the binding. I haven't had to do this exact thing, but that's what I would do. I route my groove before attaching the top and back. I advise you to wait for several opinions, though, so you can't just blame me. 
Ron |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:54 pm ] |
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The stop block is a definite must have. You'll have to rout shy of the binding and excavate the rest by hand. I'd also try to keep it plain and simple, seeing as you have a delicate routing operation ahead of you! Here's my very simple latest. 
Good luck budy! |
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| Author: | PaulB [ Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:02 pm ] |
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My advice would be to use a piece of binding. I cut mine by hand with a steel rule and a box cutter the excavate with a 1/4" chisel. Many light cuts with the box cutter give much greater control than one or two passes with lots of pressure. I'll post a pic of my latest when I get home from work. By using a piece of binding you give yourself the option of using a larger wedge shaped piece for a second try if it doesn't turn out how you hope first time around. I think this is going to be tricky, so its best to leave yourself an option. |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:23 pm ] |
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Thanks Ron, Alain and Paul, all good advice! Could it be also possible to route trough the binding and have the wedge get flush with the top and the back? Would it look too weird? 
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| Author: | PaulB [ Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:26 pm ] |
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If you make it flush with the top and back, then it will be darker than the binding when looking at the guitar from the top and back, 'cause you'll be looking at end grain which will finish darker than the rest of the binding. |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:35 pm ] |
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Thanks Paul, looking forward to see your wedge pics! |
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| Author: | dgalas [ Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:52 pm ] |
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I'd go as simple as possible Serge. Just a little inlay to replace the seam. You don't want to screw anything up now that it's bound. If it wasn't bound, I'd go for the butt wedge (applied first) with mitered purlfling. Then again, you could rout it off and start over...
Anyway, since it's right behind me, here's one I did... 
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| Author: | old man [ Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:04 pm ] |
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Serge, on my first (and on the two I'm doing now), I used regular straight binding, not wedge shaped. That's what I'd recommend as it will be easier to route at this point. Ron |
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| Author: | PaulB [ Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:41 pm ] |
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Here ya go Serge. This is just a bit of scrap binding that I used for an end graft. The camera angle makes it look a little wedge shaped, but you get the idea. It's tiger myrtle on Tassy blackwood with a bit of shellac on the endgraft in case you were wondering. 
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| Author: | Todd Rose [ Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:36 pm ] |
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Serge, I can't see from the photo how tight your joint is on the butt. If it looks good the way it is, you could just leave it. There's no rule that says you have to have a wedge or anything there. Some very nice guitars have been made without one. If there is a gap there, I'd check and see if it's a uniform gap, and how wide it is. It might be just right to just glue in some purfling that would look good with your overall scheme. Or you could even possibly fill it with wood dust from the wood your binding is made of (or some other wood that would look good there) and wick in CA glue. No one would know you didn't actually inlay a piece of purfling or that the whole thing wasn't intentional. Even if the gap isn't even and clean-looking, it might be easier to carefully clean up the existing gap and fill it with one of my suggestions than to excavate a whole new area. |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:36 pm ] |
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Thanks Dave, Ron, Paul and Todd, i 'm gonna keep all suggestions that were given to me here and study all the avenues that are possible, i like them all! I'm gonna take a look at the situation and decide what i'm more comfortable with, will let you all know ASAP! 
Oh and thanks for the pics Dave and Paul, i see what you mean now, cool! Many many thanks, it feels like i'm gonna have more choices to work from for this area now, i really appreciate it! 
Keep 'em pics coming though please!
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| Author: | KiwiCraig [ Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:00 pm ] |
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All these wedges look fantastic . I'm very impressed with you combo Paul. I know we spoke of it ,but seeing it in the flesh is a different thing all together. Your work looks very neat too! , as is Dave's and Alain's. Looking forward to seeing it all complete . You certainly are going like a champion Serge !. I would do as Paul suggests and go for a sharp edge and tape a straight edged rule on. Less chance of making a router slip ! OOOOPPPPS ! !@#$%^&* 
Cheers ! KiwiCraig |
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| Author: | Bill Greene [ Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:08 pm ] |
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I was going to say what Todd said...I know a luthier who doesn't use end grafts at all, and it's beautiful. I chose to do one, but only because my sides missed meeting up by about 1/4 of an inch. And I used the box cutter, 1/4 chisel method, too. |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:06 am ] |
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I'd definitely agree with Paul use a steel straight edge and knife, then clean out with a chisel, your only trying to remove wood about 8mm wide and 2mm deep. I always do my wedges like that, just take it slow and you should have no problem. Colin |
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| Author: | L. Presnall [ Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:08 am ] |
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Here are a few of mine Serge... 
Pretty realistic, huh?
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| Author: | L. Presnall [ Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:11 am ] |
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Okay, here's a real one.... 
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| Author: | Graham Steward [ Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:16 am ] |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:26 am ] |
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 nailed it
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| Author: | dgalas [ Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:56 am ] |
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Priceless, Graham! Why is it though, that Milhouse's wedgie reminds me of a headstock design? 
Maybe I finally found the source of Michi Matsuda's unending creativity
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| Author: | L. Presnall [ Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:03 am ] |
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Now, THAT'S a real one, Graham!
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| Author: | rlabbe [ Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:01 am ] |
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Another vote for steel rule and box cutter. This happened to me once, and it was easy enough to fix. Even if you rout the thing you'll still be cleaning it up by hand to get square corners, and you'll probably spend more time fussing with the router setup to make sure that you don't accidentally cut into the binding then you'll spend just doing it by hand. Since your box is indian you'll have no problem hiding any tiny glitches. A bit of melted shellac stick and you won't be able to see any flaws. |
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| Author: | Pete Licis [ Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:16 am ] |
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Thanks to some generous help from Dennis Scannell (True North). The jig, which is pretty typical is on his web page. 
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| Author: | L. Presnall [ Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:25 am ] |
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That's a nice one Pete!
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| Author: | Mario [ Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:47 am ] |
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Serge, if the fit between the rib halves is good, you don't -need- a wedge in place at all. Maybe this is the beginning of clean "Serge" look...! |
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